I attended a Serendipity House small group leader workshop tonight in Gahanna. Most of what was talked about I agreed with (that hasn't happened much lately) and I am encouraged that these people are out there encouraging people to "do life together".
When asked about how to start small groups in established churches the speaker's answer was, "just start one really good small group and then multiply from that group, that way every small group comes from a group that is doing it right." I'm not into strategies and ways that we can create community, but that is probably necessary in an established church. I think that allowing God's will to be done in our life will bring about the kingdom and that is pretty much our main concern. If we, the committed Kingdom diaspora, are committed to truly allowing God's will to be done and his kingdom to come in our lives and the lives of our families and community imagine what could happen. Imagine what would happen if we would truly practice forgiveness and reconciliation. We need to get past all the strategic planning and programming and allow Christ's teachings move us to a place where we can love people and live with them through all the bitter, salty, sweet and sour moments on the journey.
Always thought we'd make it here
But here keeps movin'
How much blood
How many tears
It's never been proven
Love's not where we thought we left it
Who took the last of love and kept it
Caged love in tried to protect it
Love's not where we thought we left it
Love's unorthodox
Changes all of nature's clocks
To time remaining
Just twenty-four hours
For lovers in training
Bitter, salty, sweet and sour
Love's not where we thought we left it
Who took the last of love and kept it
Love's not where we thought we left it
-John Hiatt
Love's not where we thought we left it
Posted by David at 11:15 PM
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9 comments:
DJB--
Kari and I had a long discussion yesterday about the existing church. If all of us who feel like we're discovering these "new" (old) truths don't share any of our hope with the existing church (little "c"; perhaps I should say existing churches), however sick it may sometimes make us, we are doing the Kingdom a grave disservice.
Thanks for these thoughts on the existing church, and how we can effect change there instead of merely giving up and moving out.
I agree that we must share this truth with the existing church, but I do not see it happening within the existing church.
For Kelsie and I, we choose to be church to our community here at ENC. Our doors are literally unlocked for all the students all the time. They know this, and before class has even started this semester, they are planning to meet with some of there small groups in our home.
We are being intentional to fix a meal every monday for whoever wants to come over to our house.
We do not regularly attend a church service anymore. We do not believe that a church divided (3000 denominations) will continue to usher in the Kingdom of God. The only way to show or teach the gospel to others or the existing church is to be set apart from a culture that locks others out rather than inviting them in.
I am glad to continue to discuss and debate these issues with you, and recently with Tim on the pentavorite. I think we are challenging one another, and I hope that we will continue to see the teachings and life of Jesus more clearly in the future.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/bickle_t/
your comments are more than welcome.
Peace dude
Kyle--
And peace also to you. I didn't know you and Kelsie were at ENC. What are you doing there?
I respect your opinion, Kyle, but I think I'm just not ready to give up on the existing church yet (although I have many times been tempted to do so). Perhaps God will allow some of us to diseminate this truth within the existing church and some to diseminate as you all, outside those traditional confines.
And that's okay with me.
Here's my blog, in case you're ever interested in reading it.
http://breadth-length-height-depth.blogspot.com/
You guys should feel free to come and visit us.
My internship is right by Fenway Park.
We only get one shot at this and frankly I am getting tired of being a part of a dysfunctional body. If the Kingdom of God is not coming in the established church then I don't want to be a part of that church. How long do we wait to be a part of a worshipping community that loves God and loves neighbor? This probably a bad analogy, but what if Paul would have remained a Pharisee to bring them along?
I don't think the "inside or outside" debate in regards to the Church as we know it (in the US) holds much water. The problem with being pessimistic about the "existing" Church is the tendency to dismiss the people that make up the churches.
I have tremendous respect for Kyle and Kelsie and the way they are impacting their community. That potential is all throughout the Body of Christ. I do see this happening with in the life of the "existing" Church. Not within the structure that currently exists (or the politics, mindset, or even much of the theology for that matter) but within the CHURCH. God's people.
Believe what you will. I do my best not to lie and I'll tell you right now that I'm seeing the beginnings of revolutionary living right here in Hilliard OH. It is God's Church being called out from within the "Church" so to speak. I can not, nor will I ever leave behind all the people in churches that are dissatisfied but unable to understand how to move forward. They are "harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Maybe they really should know better; they don't. But you should see the light bulbs come on when the truth about the Kingdom is brought to bear on their lives and in their minds! It is a beautiful thing.
Not everyone is supposed to be a pastor, or an evangelist, or a teacher, or whatever. Brad, it may very well be that you will always be a part of the deconstruction and reconstruction within "existing" churches. Kyle and Kelsie and those like them can provide an example for you to point others toward. That's what being a pastor is all about. Preparing God's people for service in His Kingdom. It is happening, through the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ!
"Hope is a good thing - maybe the best thing, and no good thing ever dies" - Andy Dufresne
Peace,
Wow - just had an interesting revelation reading Dave and John's response.
Like Dave, I certainly want to be like "fuck it" and even "fuck them" to all those under the curse of evangelism and moral codes of our church culture.
I might be wrong.
When I sit with war veterans who have PTSD, along with thier severe issues of guilt, abandonment, regret, anger, etc, we almost always end up talking about thier "dysfunctional" family.
One case in particular - 22 year old Iraq veteran - before he went into the military at eighteen, his parents had gotten a divorce, and he has felt abandoned by his father since he became an adolescent. His father chose the way of deception, manipulation, and ego as he could never confront the shame of multiple affairs and a failed fatherhood.
His father started a new family to relieve the guilt of the failed one, but wanted to include his three sons - another way of superficial renewal.
My client has been back a year, dealing with issues of explosive anger, and violent fantasies. Like a porn addict who is entrenched in sexual lust, he became the angry, violent, killer he was trained (4 years) to be. Just a glance from someone on the street and he would have an uncontrollable fantasy of violently hurting that person. He was very irritable towards his fiance of four years when she challenged or questioned him. She once questioned him about his father, and he exploded about her prodding.
This is where he and I began. Why would you be angry about your father?
Since then, we have confronted these feelings week after week, by answering questions that I had given him - with a possible goal of being able to be honest with his father, confronting him about abandonment.
Why would he want to actually confront him? Because there is no other way for him to understand his father, and no other way for him to be the husband and father that his father was not.
Since then, in the span of a month or so, my client has no more angry explosions, and no more violent fantasies. He became of aware of himself, and we confronted the questions surrounding this area and what it has to do with war, and what it has to do with his father.
Will he confront his father? I hope so. But he has done 3/4 of the work to reconcile all this to himself, now being much more sad about his lost relationship with his dad, as opposed to angry.
Whether it is this client, or others who are working toward forgiveness and reconciliation in thier family, the family can never be functional (real, honest, or connected) without confronting the pain, the loss, the rejection, the hurt, the ignorance, or the ego.
We must confront ourselves, we must confront the church, and thus be reconciled to it.
But we can not go around the cross - we must go right through it!!
I believe it, and I believe Jesus more than ever. Forgiveness is all there is. Love one another.
Embrace.
Without John Ballenger, I would be blind in one eye.
Man, I think the metaphor of a dysfunctional family is right on. David and I had lunch today at the North Market and discussed this. I've decided that Pat Robertson is like a crazy old uncle with some degenerative neurological disease. Build an "uncle suite" on your house for old uncle Pat. He could then pretend to be Dietrich Bonhoeffer whenever he wanted too and we'd smile and say "you go get 'em uncle Pat"!
Seriously though, I think it's a great metaphor in regards to learning how to deal with each other. Real community isn't warm and fuzzy. It's hard and messy but God is the Master of reconciliation if only we will be honest and open to Him. Peace,
Wow. I was missing out on a great conversation the past few days by not reading the comments.
It is such a relief to see this conversation going on in others I know. As he has done before, John sheds light on the reason I keep battling from within the institutional walls, desperately trying to turn on some light bulbs.
His words seem so familiar, "I can not, nor will I ever leave behind all the people in churches that are dissatisfied but unable to understand how to move forward." How many times have I said that trying to defend where I am at, despite my frustrations?
The thing is, I have come closer and closer to leaving the ranks, to departing from the confines of "church work" and even "church life". I look at Eric and Kyle and others who have done so, and they seem so satisfied living out the Kingdom, being The Church, without being a part of the insitution. Kelly and I would both love to live like that, and yet we don't feel released to do it.
John's affirmation of both Brad's and Kyle's roles in the Kingdom bring me comfort. I know I am where I am supposed to be. I know I am doing what I am supposed to be doing. I know we are discovering new ways of being "the church" and not just being part of a church. I know that it looks different than what some of my other friend's approaches look like, but the grass is green enough where I am at. Light bulbs are turning on (lately more than ever) in the my life and the lives of many around me. We are experiencing Christ alive in our midst. Community is deepening. Love is growing. My prayer is that I can be satisfied, and that these past few years of dissatisfaction haven't ruined my capability to experience that emotion. Peace Friends.
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